Timid Ram

Hi all, I got some Rams last weekend and although they are stunning, healthy and coloured up they are very timid.

Each time I approach the tank they shy away and I often find the huddled in a corner of the tank. I know rams can have great little characters but they just don't show it. They're in with three plecs and the flow is medium to strong. There are lots of rocks etc and some plastic plants and yet they still don't seem happy.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why they are like this? And any tips on how I might help them settle?

Sam

Ooooh, are these for the breeding project?

Maybe a small shoal of dithers? I know they're totally different fish, but my Krobia were really out going until I had to remove the group of tetra from their tank. They've since become very withdrawn and skittish- you don't see them unless you sit perfectly still for ages.

So that might be worth a try? I don't know what size tank it is, but I'm sure even with a smallish tank you could get away with a small shoal of micro tetra or rasbora?

The tanks only small and so I was worried about adding more fish. Maybe some very small tetra, something like Ember tetra might work.

I'm going to have to do something because these are my new breeding project and so I'll need them to be comfortable to breed.

Sam

Ember tetra are absolutely lovely- my dad has a shoal back home and they are such pretty fish

Galaxy Rasbora/Celestial Pearl Danio are absolutely stunning too, and emerald rasbora. Oooh, and lampeye killifish are a beautiful little fish too

What size tank is it?

I can't remember the exact size but I think it's 15"x10"x8", maybe! I haven't measured it for a while. I'm using an internal fluval 2 for filtration which is a bit of overkill and I clean the water regularly to encourage growth.

I could maybe fit 5 small fish as dithers but I'd never planned on needing too. I'd be worried I'm putting too much strain on the filter bacteria etc. and in a small tank am I asking for trouble!?

Sam

Ahh right, so about 20 ltrs or so? I think dithers probably would be pushing it too much along with everything else.

No way of moving the plecs to another tank and having a shoal of micro fish? I'd imagine they'd be less of a strain on the filter?

I'm never very good with knowing how much you can push a tank, so maybe someone else can give advice there?

On a side note, do you ever have any problems with your Fluval 2? I have one and it's been no end of trouble, I'm just wondering if I have a naff filter or if that particular model is un-reliable?

I measured the tank and it 18x10x10(9" of water). The only other tank I have is a hard water Malawi set-up and I'm not sure how the plecs will take to it.

I've never had any problems with my fluval and I've had it years. Id say they were very reliable. I've a fluval 4 and 1 too and never had trouble.

Sam

I cant really help, sorry I never have any luck with rams myself. The longest I ever kept any was in a large comunity tank.

How are they doing now? Any more settled in?

Nope

I haven't been able to get to the fish shop in ages so haven't been able to get some dithers. I'm also concerned that that many fish in such a small tank will be an issue.

Sam

I think you might be right with the dithers being a strain on the tank.
I don't know what else to suggest sorry

Pop a mirror in the tank i do this for bonding pairs and timid fish it really seems to work

That's a great suggestion!

I tried putting a mirror next to the tank this morning and it got the males interest for a little bit but he wasn't sure if he should attack it or run away from it.

The female didn't move at all and I'm now worried they are looking a bit thin through not eating. I'm feeding white worms and astax crumb but as they won't move I never see them eat anything.

I think i've found a female betta in one of my grow outs (amazing news if you've seen another one of my threads!) and so I'm thinking of moving her into this tank to grow on. Perhaps the addition of at least one other fish which is quite brave might encourage them out and not put too much strain on the filter.

I'm also going to add a fine layer of sand to encourage a more natural environment.

Do you think all this might work?

Sam

Might work, I am not much good with rams myself. I think adding the betta might help

Seems like all of the above changes, including the mirror trick, seem to have made a small difference.

The addition of the female betta was probably the biggest difference but this was accompanied by addition of the sand so it's hard to tell.

The male is a lot more confident now and won't immediately hide when I approach. The female however is still quite skittish but i've seen her eat and when I approach the tank slowly she doesn't freak out and hide like before.

I am hoping that if I feed them up their instinct to breed will take over and then they will settle down some more.

Ram's can be a real pain to parent raise fry (apparently) so I doubt they'll manage that, what with them being so scared. I plan on removing the eggs and attempting to hand raise the fry, if they even reach that stage.

Sam

Rams are one of the worst parents but if you get a pair that will raise their own fry its great to watch the swarm around them
i always let my pairs have 3 spawns and if they are still not rearing them themselves i take the eggs on the forth spawn as if its a young pair and you take the eggs first spawn they are almost sure to eat them from then on
If they are wild fish you have a good chance of the doing it themselves with tank bred fish from asia it very hit and miss

Thanks Steve. The parents and grandparents of this pair were both parent raised fish so I am hopeful this pair will have a good chance of figuring it out. I wanted to remove the eggs/fry to ensure that I actually get some fry from their spawn. I may leave them to it a couple of times but if they manage to get to the nearly free swimming stage I may siphon out a few as a security policy.

It seems the flow rate was a major contributor to the fish hiding all the time. I have turned down the flow and directed it in a different direction and ever since both the male and female have been out swimming around the tank.

I am more confident that they will eventually spawn now. They're such a lovely pair with interesting genetics so I hope they will spawn soon.

Sam

But we're not allowed to know what they are? Fantastic news that they're doing so much better Sam

If you get fry soon then I may be sorely tempted if you'd be selling them

I'm sorry guys. The breeder made me promise not to post about the specifics as I'm not really meant to have them.

All I can say for now is they are very special. Not your normal Rams and they will produce some amazing fry if I can get them to breed and raise the fry.

I'm very excited! And of course the fry will be up for sale if I manage to breed them.

Sam

Not these are they

http://www.tropi.co/news/lilac-rams-mikrogeophagus-ramirezi-spawning-5

I was only teasing, Sam
Keeping my fingers crossed that they breed for you soon ^^

Maybe! But ssshhhhh!!!

*Zips mouth shut*

Ive got a pair of super blues Sam that have just spawned but only 5 fertilized eggs the rest fungus but it was only there first try

are they the super blues

I saw a pair of them on ebay the other week and they were stunning!